Rae [00:00:00] I can't say that I've really seen Wolves in the wild very much. I've always been so focused on bears when I'm out in that kind of habitat. But there's this one time I was in Yellowstone National Park and I was looking for bears and ended up seeing one lone wolf, and it was super exciting.
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Peter [00:00:20] I had the opportunity recently we were filming Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom: Protecting the wild, of seeing a Mexican red wolf, one of the few remaining of the species in the world in the Carolinas. Sadly, a lot of people over the generations have seen wolves as a threat, and it's led to their endangerment and, for some species, even extinction. I'm wildlife expert and educator, Peter Gross.
Rae [00:00:47] And I'm wildlife ecologist Doctor Rae Wynn-Grant. And this is Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom, The Podcast, Episode 10: Big Good Wolves.
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Rae [00:01:08] People have coexisted with wolves on the landscape for thousands of years. But there's also a history of people seeing wolves as threats.
Peter [00:01:16] You can hear it in phrases like “the big bad wolf,” “wolf in sheep's clothing,” “wolves at the door,” and “hungry like a wolf.” But what people don't realize is that those stereotypes have had a real impact on the wolf populations in North America.
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Rae [00:01:34] There was once up to half a million wolves in the U.S. alone. But as European settlers migrated westward, wolves were seen as predators to livestock. Folks did elaborate things to trap and kill them, and the government even sanctioned a program to eradicate wolves on the continental U.S. So, by the 1960s, there were only about 300 wolves in the lower 48 states.
Regina Mossotti [00:01:59] One of the biggest reasons that we've lost them is because of the misconceptions that are out there about wolves. Some of those are “Little Red Riding Hood.” You know, they're dangerous; they're gonna eat my grandma or my kids. That they decimate elk or deer populations, and that mindset that they are a danger to us has led to them being hunted, poached, almost to the point of extinction.
Peter [00:02:24] Regina Mossotti isn't afraid of wolves. In fact, it's their very reputation that draws her to them.
Regina Mossotti [00:02:31] It spoke to me. I was kind of one of those misunderstood kids, too. I was, I loved nature, I was kind of a science nerd, and all the things and so animals that were misunderstood always stood out to me. I guess I related to them somehow. And that translated as I grew into loving carnivores and especially wolves, because they really get a bad rap and are completely misunderstood, and learning about them and realizing what they're really like is is why I got really excited about them. And it was an easy thing for me to say, you know what? This is what I want to dedicate my life to.
Rae [00:03:06] Regina is vice president of animal care at the Saint Louis Zoo in Missouri. But when she was a guest on Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom: Protecting the Wild, she was a keeper at the Endangered Wolf Center. The center was established in 1971 by the original host of Wild Kingdom, Marlin Perkins.
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Marguerite Garrick [00:03:24] His whole life, it had troubled him how wolves were being deliberately exterminated from all the lower 48 states, and he knew that they were valuable apex predators who kept an ecosystem in balance.
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Regina Mossotti [00:03:41] He started the center because of what he had learned along the way in his career. He saw that there was no institution really in the world like the Danger Wolf Center at that point, and he worked with partners to help form what was then called “Wild Canine Survival and Research Center” that later changed its name and data center to be able to do just that, to be able to help save these animals from extinction. And having Mutual of Omaha at the Endangered Wolf Center it was very moving for sure.
Peter [00:04:11] At the center, Regina worked to boost the populations of several wolf species through a program of fostering wolf pups.
Regina Mossotti [00:04:19] So what fostering is we take pups to our lesson two weeks old, ears closed, eyes closed still, and we can sneak them into a wild den so that wild parents who already know how to stay away from people who already know how to hunt, who already have a territory, can raise them up and teach them wild wolf behavior. It just makes it that much easier for those wolves to get a chance to survive in the wild.
Rae [00:04:41] And if you're concerned that maybe the wild wolf moms won't accept these pups that got snuck into their dens, don't worry.
Regina Mossotti [00:04:48] Wolves are so freaking nurturing. They want to nurture pups. And what we have found is that whether it's pups that are fostered in or on their own, they see puppies, and that's all that matters to them, and they want to take care of them. So, that strong mothering nurturing urge is what allows fostering to work. Now, we take great pains to try and make the pups that come from zoos smell like and seem like her own pups will take dirt from the wild den and rub it on the pups so that they smell like mom and smell like the other wild pups. It's an incredibly successful program. These pups are growing up having their own litter and helping grow the population of these wolves out in the wild, which is incredible.
Rae [00:05:30] When you're talking about releasing red wolves into the wild. Like, where is this place?
Regina Mossotti [00:05:35] Yeah. So right now, where we're releasing them into the wild is in the east coast of North Carolina, in an area, near and around Alligator National Wildlife Refuge. And that was the first-ever reintroduction of a large carnivore that was not on the landscape in human history. What happened is red wolves are native to the southeastern United States. Native to where I am in Missouri, all the way to the East Coast, New York, down to Florida, and over to Texas. But that decimation, the overhunting, the habitat loss. We dramatically reduced the red wolf population to just a few left in the wild, and the U.S. Fish Wildlife Service in the 1960s and 70s, and 80s worked hard to find the last remaining red wolves that were on the landscape, brought them into zoological institutions with the goal of breeding them to release them back into the wild. To help get those numbers up, the ones that they found were the last remaining. They brought all of them in. So, for a few years there, there were no red wolves left on the landscape because we had hunted them all to extinction.
Rae [00:06:38] Oh, got it, wow.
Regina Mossotti [00:06:39] And so zoological institutions like Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium, like the Endangered Wolf Center, Wolf Conservation Center, and others worked together to breed red wolves again in a way that they stayed wild. Kept those wild instincts with the hopes of being able to release them again in the future. And in 1987, U.S. Fish and Wild Service worked with North Carolina, found land and reintroduced them back into North Carolina, where they had been unfortunately extinct for a few years because they had been hunted to extinction. So brought them back, which, again, that's the first time anything like that had ever happened.
Rae [00:07:14] Give me the timing of this. Also, like when are wolf pups born and then when do you all release them? What is the timing of that? How old are they? What do they look like? I mean, spell it out.
Regina Mossotti [00:07:24] Yeah, Wolves are very different from other carnivores in terms of how they how they breed and how they have pups. They actually only breed one time of year. That's it. And they usually breed in around February timeframe. And their gestation, how long they're pregnant for is only about 60 to 63 days. So it's very short, about two months. So that means that pups are usually born in the April-May time frame. And so, most of the time wolves are digging dens that are underground. They find really good places to build dens that are really strong and really well hidden. I emphasize a really well-hidden because when you're fostering pups in the wild, you have to find their dens. When they're born, their eyes are closed; their ears are closed. They are solely relying on the warmth of mom and the sense of smell to be able to find the nipple to nurse. And that's how they get along for about the first two weeks of life. Then their eyes start to slowly open. Then their ears start to slowly open so they can hear and see and learn about their surroundings. And after that, they take off. They grow very quick, and they usually start to venture out of the den but stay close to it at about four weeks of age. And then usually, after several months, they are starting to actually follow the pack.
Peter [00:08:37] If I can bring it back just a little bit to the endangered Wolf center. I've worked with many veterinarians over the years handling many endangered species, but there was something about being there with you and holding those incredibly rare Red Wolf pups in my hand. It just hit me hard.
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Peter: I can't believe it. I just I'm kind of shaking. Yeah, the fact that I can't believe in my hands is this very rare, very endangered Wolf.
Regina Mossotti [00:09:06] It's an honor and a privilege to be able to take care of these animals. You're holding the most endangered wolf in the world, and that she'll have a chance, hopefully someday, to run free in the wild. That's what it's all about. That's why we're here.
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Rae [00:09:17] Peter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you tear up a little bit in that moment?
Peter [00:09:21] Well, I'm afraid to say I did. It just sort of hit me. It was. It was a surreal moment to me that I was holding one of the most endangered species in my hand, and secondly, that it was fat and it was hydrated and it was healthy, and it all seemed to be doing really, really well. Yes, it did it really. It just hit me hard. Are you still personally attached to those pups?
Regina Mossotti [00:09:44] Always. You can't not be at all. Every pup is hope to me, and it never gets old, just like hearing them how never gets old. It is one of the most beautiful sounds in nature, and it's that experience of getting to see those wolves, getting to see them grow up, seeing their personalities develop is incredibly special. I feel very lucky, to be able to have that. And it is so hard not to get attached because you get to see their personalities come out as they grow up with their family, and you'll see one pup be like the goofball jester who always tries to get everybody playing, and you'll see the other one who, like, follows mom around everywhere because they want to be the next Alpha, and they're trying to learn how to be all bossy and cool like you get to see all their personalities come out and so much fun.
Peter [00:10:29] It has to be bittersweet. Or is that what you hope will happen someday, that they no longer have to be bred in captivity?
Regina Mossotti [00:10:35] One of my bosses from a while ago used to say, if we can work ourselves out of a job, that means we've done a good job, right? If we don't need conservation anymore, and the animals are all doing great on the landscape, that's what we're working towards. And it is bittersweet. You know, we we love these animals so much in releasing them into the wild is so exciting to know they get a chance to run free and help save an endangered species by having puppies and a family of their own, by trying to help that, you know that ecosystem get back to where it needs to be is incredible, but it's always hard to let. Them go. It's like letting your teenager go off to college like you're. You're happy for them and you're so proud of them to be independent, but you're also scared for them too. So, it is definitely a bittersweet moment.
Rae [00:11:19] In the episode that we did on Wild Kingdom about Wolves, I had a very different experience than Peter, where he was helping you to do exactly what you're talking about. But I was in a like a sanctuary for wolves.
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Rae: I'm visiting the Wildlife Science Center in Minnesota that's devoted to studying wolves and also demonstrating that their terrible reputation is completely undeserved. The center began in 1990 when wildlife biologist Peggy decided to rescue wolves that would have otherwise been euthanized.
Megan Callahan-Beckel [00:11:51] Wolves that are born on-site here are not going to be released.
Rae [00:11:53] From the original 40 gray wolves that Peggy rescued. The population has grown to more than 80.
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Regina Mossotti [00:12:00] The gray wolves that you got to work with at the sanctuary. You know, what a cool experience to be able to see, you know, an institution that's taking animals that have been unfortunately owned as pets or that have been injured and brought in like there is. There's so much great work by those people to help save those animals. And they're great ambassadors for, you know, teaching people about wolves. And then there's the opposite end of it, where there's red wolves who were raised in a completely different way where we're like I said, we're hands off, and we're releasing them out to the wild and preparing them for that life. It's just it's so neat to see how both are making such an impact for wolf conservation.
Rae [00:12:36]: You're the right person for me to talk to because here's the question that I get a lot when I'm trying to talk to people about wolves and get them to love them, as they say, like “well, how are they related to dogs?” Like, what's the story here with wolves and dogs? I love dogs; everybody loves dogs. That's a big part of our culture. But yet wolves, you know, seem so scary.
Regina Mossotti [00:12:54] Yeah. So, domestic dogs are related to wolves. I think a lot of people don't realize that. But humans domesticated wolves tens of thousands of years ago and have bred animals, wolves, canids, dogs, to fit what you see today, right? Whether it's a Great Dane or a Pomeranian. We have specialized dogs to be able to live with us, work with us. And it's very different than a wolf, right? A wolf is a wild animal that needs to stay wild. But, you know, in terms of the behavior that you see with wolves, one of the things that I love about wolves is their family structure. They are so cool in terms of how they work together how they support each other. Their family structure actually very much mimics our family structure, where it's mom and dad and their kids, and the kids grow up, and they help raise the next generation of kids. And that support that you see that wolves have for each other is similar to what domestic dogs have for us. They love us. They see us as love. I know it's anthropomorphic. They want to be around us. We love them. We, I can say that they want to be around us. They see us as their pack, and we can take care of them, and they can take care of us. So there's some of the similarities that I see with dogs and wolves.
Peter [00:14:10] What a perfect analogy. We've come a long way from the big Bad Wolf to that analogy. That's great.
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Rae [00:14:18] There's one other piece of information about wolves that's an argument for saving the species, and it has to do with their impact on ecosystems. Without wolves, certain other species can grow to untenable numbers, and the effects on the plant and animal life throw everything out of balance that was happening in Yellowstone National Park.
Regina Mossotti [00:14:38] Wolves were decimated from that landscape. There were no more wolves in Yellowstone anymore. They used to be there, but they had been hunted to extinction. There were plenty of elk and deer because without wolves there they had overpopulated elk, and deer had just skyrocketed and were kind of decimating the landscape. And in 1995, biologists worked to release Gray wolves into Yellowstone from Canada, which was very close. So it's the same wolves that would have been there, exciting all on its own, right? So, the wolf population grew well a few decades later. It was actually a plant biologist who was researching Yellowstone and had been for a long time started to see plants coming back that he hadn't seen in a while, and in areas that he hadn't seen, those plants coming back like cottonwoods and willows and others. And he couldn't figure out why. At first, he looked at it, and he's like, “Maybe it's a plant disease had gone through, and it's gone, maybe it's due to climate change” he couldn't figure out what it was. And as he was looking at the timeline, everything kept bringing him back to 1995. And he realized that the biggest change that happened that year was Wolves coming back. You saw plants comng back along the edges of rivers where they hadn't been before because the elk and the deer had been eating them down well on the edges of the rivers. What they did is they provided habitat for certain endangered fish to spawn. And over time, you got to see these plants come back that were just eaten down to the nubs because of the overpopulation of elk and deer because of the loss of our big carnivores. So Yellowstone is one of the coolest stories to just show how everything is connected in nature and how if we can bring that balance back, it will help make our wild lands and again, ultimately us, healthier.
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Peter [00:16:27] So, having heard all this great information about wolves, all of us want to know now, what can I do? How can I get plugged into conservation efforts? And how can I help save wolves and other wild animals?
Regina Mossotti [00:16:39] Well, I think the fact that people are listening to the show is huge, being able to share the information that you learned here and be an ambassador for the animals is big. At your family dinner parties, on social media, whatever you can, you know, share what wolves are really like to help break down those myths. Because the more people understand them, the more they want to protect them. You know what I always say is if you fear something, you don't want to save it, right? And so breaking down those myths is going to be a big step forward for wolf conservation finding organizations, in addition to the zoos that you can visit, like the American Red Wolf Safe program or the Mexican Wolf Safe program, and helping to support those organizations is really important. And then, for the kids who are out there listening and trying to decide if they want to become a biologist when they grow up, do it. And there's so many other ways that you can help with conservation, too, not just science. We have communication specialists, teachers, education specialists, and others that can help with conservation as well.
Rae [00:17:45] Regina! Thank you so much for joining us, not just on one of our best episodes of Wild Kingdom from Season One but also on this podcast to talk all about the absolutely sweet and cute, and irresistible Red Wolf pups and all of the amazing work you all are doing. Thank you.
Regina Mossotti [00:18:04] Well, thank you guys for having me. You guys, like I said, are such inspirations, and you're making a huge difference, too. So it's an honor to be on your show. And any time you wanna talk about wolves, you just let me know. That's my happy place.
Peter [00:18:17] Wolves have been misunderstood and misrepresented for a long time. They're creatures of legend and folklore, usually to their harm. The reality is they're highly intelligent and social animals that help maintain a healthy balance to their surrounding environments. If we take the necessary steps today, we can ensure magical moments in the wild kingdom for future generations.
Rae [00:18:43] Join us next week when we talk to Megan Smylie about the work she's doing at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach, California, to save the southern sea otter population.
Megan Smylie [00:18:54] They keep their food in their armpits. Sea otters have pockets. More specifically, armpit pockets is hilarious, and I think kids always think it's really funny. If we tell them, you're going to keep your snacks in your armpit.
Rae [00:19:07] That's next time on Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom, The Podcast.
[CREDITS]
Peter: Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom: The podcast is a production of Pineapple Street Studios and Mutual of Omaha.
Rae: Our senior producer is Stephen Key.
Producers are Xandra Ellin and Jenny Van Soelen.
Associate producer is Lisa Cerda.
Editor is Darby Maloney.
Executive producers are Barri Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, and Jen Wulf.
Pineapple's head of sound and engineering is Raj Makhija, Senior audio engineers are Marina Paiz, Davy Sumner, Javi Cruces, and Pedro Alvira. Additional engineering by Rob Miller and Jason Richards.
This episode was mixed by Davy Sumner.
Peter: Production. Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound and Hearst Media Production Group.
Rae: Episode clips courtesy of Hearst Media Production Group.
Fact-checking by Justine Daum.
Marketing and promotion by Emily Poeschl.
This podcast is hosted by me, Rae Wynn-Grant
Peter: And me, Peter Gros. A special thanks to Katelyn Williams, Sophie Radmilovich, and Stephanie Diaz
Rae: Today's episode is based on the Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom series created by Don Meier.
Our next episode will be out in a week.
Peter: Make sure you listen on the Audacy app or wherever you get your podcasts.
